Just what were the anti-Japan protesters thinking?
Chatting with a Shanghai college student
Well, Japan has apologized to China … again. But Japanese officials also visited the highly controversial Yasukuni Shrine … again. (Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi hasn’t made his annual pilgrimage to the shrine — yet. He was busy meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Indonesia. A recent poll by Japan’s liberal Asahi Shimbun newspaper, by the way, shows that nearly half of Japanese voters wish Koizumi would halt his visits to the shrine, which honors Japan’s war dead — including 14 convicted World War II Class A war criminals.) And so, China responded to the apology by saying Japan needs to match its words with actions … again. And now, the feud turns to school textbooks … again. This time, Japan is calling China’s history books “extreme.” Not exactly breaking news.
The China-Japan issue is not going away any time soon. If you have read the comments to my previous post, that is abundantly clear. (And if you haven’t read the comments yet, don’t try to do it in one sitting.) Most Chinese feel one way. Most outsiders feel the opposite. The Chinese don’t understand the outsiders. The outsiders don’t understand the Chinese. This is not the first time in history this has happened.
(A short note about the comments — 99, and counting — to the previous post: I never responded to any of them. I was a bit overwhelmed, to be honest. It seemed much was read into what I did or didn’t write. And I got the feeling nothing I said in response was going to do any good. Let me just say this for the record: I believe the many horrors of the Japanese Invasion are repulsive and infuriating AND I believe China taking another nation to task for denying or whitewashing history is absurd and hypocritical. These views are not mutually exclusive. They are, to me, obvious.)
Anyway, to the point of this post. Last week, I had a short MSN conversation about the protests and what caused them with a former student of mine at Shanghai University. I thought I’d share it with you. It’s nothing earth-shattering. It’s not going to change any opinions — that, I think, is impossible at this point in time — but it will give you an unfiltered glimpse into the mind of a typical Chinese college student. She’s a good student. She’s not an extremist. She didn’t participate in the Shanghai protests — she was told not to by her school — but she supported them. You may not agree with her point of view. You may not even comprehend it. But this is how millions and millions of young Chinese think nowadays. And the rest of the world is going to have to learn how to deal with it.
The following link will take you to the text of our chat, which could have gone on much, much longer … but I got tired. My student gave me permission to post this. I have changed her name, but she didn’t ask me to.
Here is the chat transcript.
Further reading:
In China, Roots Of Anger Toward Japan Run Deep (Washington Post, April 20)
People urged to shun unauthorized marches (Xinhua, April 21)
Playing at ‘Rage,’ China Dramatizes Its Rise (New York Times, April 21)
Ross Terrill: China’s hardly in a position to lecture Japan (The Australian, April 22)
Chinese police disperse protestors (UPI, April 24)
Why Japan’s Apology Won’t Heal Asia’s Wounds: William Pesek Jr. (Bloomberg, April 25)
A Hundred Cellphones Bloom, and Chinese Take to the Streets (New York Times, April 25)
Letting Passions Burn May Backfire on China (Los Angeles Times, April 25)
16 arrested for illegal actions in anti-Japan rally (Shanghai Daily, April 26)
China detains web user over Japan plot (Reuters, April 26)
Orville Schell: China’s victimization syndrome (The Korea Herald, April 26)
Sino-Japanese dispute driven by cynicism (The Northern Daily Leader, April 26)
Shanghai Clamps On Anti-Japanese Demonstrations (ESWN, April 26)
- Tens of thousands take to the streets of Shanghai
- “A detailed instruction on the Protest Against Right Wing Japanese”
[UPDATE: If the above chat transcript link doesn’t work for you, try this.]
04.25.2005, 3:16 PM · Observations, Politics
18 Comments
You’re a brave man posting that conversation on the net.
fuck japs
What Chinese government has done to Tibets does not justify Japan’s invasion and slaughter. Would you agree “but see what US has done to Iraq and Jugoslavia” if some US younths were killed by some angry mad men here. Would you advise US embassy to take another perspective on the younths’ lives?
Come on, you are old enough to understand the “stand” thing. It’s all about where your stand is. It’s just too stupid, really unforgivable, and extremely confusing if Chinese people let the Japanese do the wrong(from the appropriate perspective) things.
From an appropriate perspective, Japanese is pig, Chinese is pig, and so is American. Many Chinese were happy when US was hit by Ben Laden, why? Because you don’t stand with us when Japan insults us, and are trying to prove some stupid peaceful perspective thing. If you are with us, you are with us, if you are not, don’t pretend to be nice at all. We were born in different places, and we may be destinied to fight against each other.
Maybe, from the perspective of God, it’s just some trick he arranged to make the world looks exciting. If he did arrange that, we should be loyal to his will and act the roles we took and fight like crazy to make him happy. “hmm, exactly what I want” God is a director.
Well, raising Chinese government’s hypocrisy when talking about Japanese government’s wrong doings doesn’t help. But I see your point,Dan, Chinese government should face its own dark history and let the people know the truth. Unfortunately looks like we have to wait for a long long time to see that happen. We often say this “History shouldn’t be forgotten” to right wing Japanese, then we should be informed of the whole picture.
“if you succeeding in making that country a part of yours,then build it and give the people there better life,I think it’s right to do so”
So she supports the invasion of Iraq?
What we see from “Jane” is typical; she’s highly nationalistic, and deflects any criticism of her beloved country through evasion.
In Dan Washburn’s post, “Ten of thousands take to the streets of Shanghai,” he describes what he saw of the march from his vantage point near People’s Square. He chronicles the event and offers pictures and videos in illustration of them. In the concluding paragraph of his brief report, and once in the body of the post, he offers some personal observations. Although nowhere in his article does he provide historical or political analyses, he does give links to sites which engage in journalistic analysis. His personal comments do not expose an ideology nor are they demeaning to the Chinese people nor nation. As a foreign observer and chronicler of events, he exhibits the natural perspective that to join the march for other than journalistic purposes (interviewing marchers and reporting to readers their thoughts and experiences) would be “odd” because, in order to do so, one would necessarily be crossing the line from objectivity to advocacy. In the final paragraph his observation also comes from this perspective – informed opinion is superior to uninformed opinion, and in order to be informed, one needs unbridled access to accurate information and a wide range of analyses.
Dan’s short piece became a Rorschach test for those who commented. They projected their own personalities and belief systems onto his article. They saw what they wanted to see and attributed attitudes and comments to him that were not discernable from an objective reading of his words. They called for comparative historical and political analyses from him that would have required intimate knowledge of the histories and politics of both China and Japan – and some criticized him for not gratuitously including the United States in this analysis.
The only bias that one can objectively discern from Dan’s writing is a healthy cynicism toward all governments. A comparative analysis of world governments could never result in a ranking indicating which government was or is “best” – only which was or is least worst. All governments lie. All national governments have committed enough atrocities and wreaked havoc on their own and/or other nation’s people to embarrass the most patriotic of nationalists. The government we as individuals have to be most concerned with is our own because our own government is the one which exerts most control over us. Secondly, we have to be aware of those national governments with the most economic and military power because they have the resources to directly affect our lives as well. Within twenty years China will be such a power. Because of the size of the nation and its wealth of untapped resources, material and human, China should become the most powerful nation on the face of the earth – if our planet survives. How will China use that power?
Right now, however, the national government most worrying on a global basis is in the United States. A rising tide of neo-fascism, corporatism, and fundamentalism is emanating from the Bush administration and engulfing the nation. This, among many other things, has resulted in an illegal military incursion into a sovereign nation which the Bush administration is calling a “pre-emptive war.” They engage in Orwellian newspeak by defining the war in terms of “liberation,” “freedom,” and “democracy.” Domestic politics exhibits the same line of thinking. The hope of those who dissent from this ideological stance is that the powers invested in the people by the United States Constitution will allow them to change this government in 2008.
Most people in the world want their governments to build level playing fields on which all people have opportunities to provide for their families and lead happy and productive lives. They would like their governments to engage in peaceful and productive relationships with those of other nations to the benefit of all. Do we as individual citizens of the global community have the strength of will to put past wrongs perpetrated by governments on theirs and other peoples aside? Can we cease making recriminations and stop seeking revenge? Can we think in terms of survival of the planet and easing the burden of suffering borne by millions of our fellow global citizens? Can we look to a future engaged in efforts to right the social imbalances that exist in our world to the end of providing equity and justice for all? Can we put nationalism aside and think globally?
In 1952 Albert Einstein wrote, “…a new branch of mythic thought [has] already grown strong, one not religious in nature but no less perilous to mankind – exaggerated nationalism. Half a century has shown that this new adversary is so strong that it places in question man’s very survival.”
For individuals to move from nationalism to globalism in thought and in action takes courage, will, and strength of character. The survival of humankind lies in the balance.
that was a bit long, but makes sense…
however, it’s a bit hard to be be “globalist” when you want your parents to come to your college graduation in the US and the US government rejects their visa request.
theory is theory, reality is reality, which is why sometimes progress seems painfully slow.
I dont get it, Dan and all the other anti chinese doesnt make sense when they bring up Tibet. It is about Japan, why are we bringing up what China did. Lets see, just because Americans commited genocide against Native Americans, doesnt mean you american should shut the heck up on every other issue related to say what Nazis did?
Lets argue about Japan’s approval of those textbooks and lets talk about Tibet when that issue comes up, ok?
BTW I do agree that maybe its time to let this Japanese issue to rest once and for all.
Dan’s not anti chinese
you should read this site a bit more closely
he wouldn’t be living in shanghai if he was
have some appreciation for people
the guy left clean, quiet, friendly georgia to come live in dirty, noisy, roudy shanghai.
i guess i don’t necessarily buy all his comments but he’s here and he’s doing this and i have great appreciation for that. I’d like to think that it indirectly reflects the fact how far our city and country has come in the last couple of decades. I take some comfort the fact that people would come live and work here means that our city must have something nice to offer despite all the negatives.
“Chinese’s” accusation that Dan is anti-Chinese is not only erroneous, it is downright scary. Why? Because when name-calling begins at the grass-roots level and spirals to the point where it becomes the mantra of the powers-that-be, it becomes policy that is not only acknowledged, but sanctified.
I wonder if the differences in our respective positions on this issue are due to language issues. I know no American-born citizen who can speak or write Mandarin (although there are probably many), but I know a number of Chinese-born individuals who can speak and write English. Although I do not speak or write Mandarin, I daresay that the innuendoes of both languages are more difficult to discern than the languages themselves, particularly when the language is a second language.
It is time to step back, take a deep breath, and evaluate what is being said here. It is also time to understand that, while we may believe we are right in our given position, there is the possibility that, for cultural and language reasons, we may be wrong in our interpretation.
I applaud Dan for his willingness to write about controversial issues. Despite warnings, he chose to cover this story. He didn’t have to do it. The fact that he did speaks volumes about his dedication, his courage, and his passion for journalism. It takes a lot of chutzpah to stand up for what you believe.
Let’s not make this website a forum for anger, hatred, name-calling, and intolerance. Rather, we should use it as a vehicle that enables us to be knowledgeable, culturally sensitive, and kind toward each other.
This is one of the BEST BLOG about China, dare I say. Keep it up Dan. You are an asset to China.
“if you succeeding in making that country a part of yours,then build it and give the people there better life,I think it’s right to do so”
I don’t agree with that either…….I don’t know what to say…..well,maybe she just felt dizzy while she’s writing so much English.
But what I know now is most Tibetan are living the lives which they feel satisfied in.
The transcript won’t load for me. :(
This is embrassing, I mixed up Dan’s post with someone else’s blog post regarding to the same topic. I went through Dan’s previous entries again, he didn’t do name calling ‘stupid Chinese’. I retreat the comment comparing him to GW.
Inquiry International, really enjoy your comment.
Frankly, to live in the Bible belt state Georgia, I much rather to live in Shanghai.
Wow…I got a lot of history reading to do. China really opens up your perspective on these things. Coming from Malaysia (very recently at that), “Jane’s” views in the transcript is pretty shocking to say the least…very nationalistic, very narrow viewed IMO.
I will not partake in this whole Japan issue on the basis of lack of knowledge, but Dan you really are doing a good job here. JeffOoi.com is a similar ‘icon’ ;) back in Malaysia. Cheers to you!
With the Japanese, the Chinese have been more magnanimous than the Americans. Compare the fate of two femme fatales of the 1940’s. Li-Hsiang-lan, a beautiful singer in 1940’s Shanghai, was famously collaborative with the Japanese occupation troops. When the Nationalists retook the city in 1945, they arrested her and charged her with being a traitor to her native land. Whereupon, she declared that though she was born and raised in China, her parents were actually Japanese, and therefore she wasn’t a traitor. The Nationalists bought that line, and allowed her to repatriate with the other Shanghai Japanese in 1946. She made a movie career in Japan in the late 40’s under the name of Yoshiko Yamaguchi. Later she married the Japanese-American sculptor Noguchi, moved to his hometown of Los Angeles, and made movies there in the 1950’s under the name of Shirley Yamaguchi.
In contrast to Shirley’s story, compare the fate of Iva Toguri aka Tokyo Rose. When the American Occupation Authorities caught up with her in 1947, they put her on trial for being a traitor to the country of her birth (Chicago). She was sentenced to seven years in prison—-all that just for playing Benny Goodman records to homesick GI’s on Okinawa. This just goes to show that when Americans are anti-Japanese, they don’t pussyfoot around.
BTW, there’s a Steven Spielberg film about this era, made in 1987, titled “Empire of the Sun”. It describes what happened to the Anglo-American community in Shanghai after the Japanese occupied the International Settlements in 1941. Ben Stiller has bit role in it; so obviously it’s not a comedy .
If you want to get to that web link about Tibet in the Chat transcript, just first go to http://en.wikipedia.org then do a search on Tibet. China’s web filters use varying techiniques, one is to block direct links with words link “tibet” in them, so sometimes go to the home page of the site and try to get to the page from within the site.